Official UW Season Thread ('08-09')

[Jcwisco]

The Badgers are always going to have problems against pressure becuase they dont attack the basket after they break the press. I get the feeling that that is Bo not letting the other team to bait him into a running game and forgeting their offense and patients, which by the way has been pretty succesful most of the time. It personally bothers me but hey he obviosly knows what he's doing. Tonights game was a good way for them to see what they need to get better at remember they are young we can only get better from here. Wouldnt you like to see what Bo could do with a team like UConn though man they were good/

[TroyD92]

Originally Posted by Jcwisco

The Badgers are always going to have problems against pressure becuase they dont attack the basket after they break the press. I get the feeling that that is Bo not letting the other team to bait him into a running game and forgeting their offense and patients, which by the way has been pretty succesful most of the time. It personally bothers me but hey he obviosly knows what he's doing. Tonights game was a good way for them to see what they need to get better at remember they are young we can only get better from here. Wouldnt you like to see what Bo could do with a team like UConn though man they were good/

no doubt I was impressed by Price he is one hell of a player, and you can see the talent Walker has.

[Jcwisco]

Maybe you guys have already had this conversation already but do you guys see a difference in the guys Bo is trying to recruit now. It seems like he has been going after longer more athletic guys latley as opposed to shooters. Wilson, Taylor and Taylor, as well as Blue? I am really lookimg forward to see what happens going forward.

[Bernini]

Originally Posted by Jcwisco

The Badgers are always going to have problems against pressure becuase they dont attack the basket after they break the press. I get the feeling that that is Bo not letting the other team to bait him into a running game and forgeting their offense and patients, which by the way has been pretty succesful most of the time. It personally bothers me but hey he obviosly knows what he's doing. Tonights game was a good way for them to see what they need to get better at remember they are young we can only get better from here. Wouldnt you like to see what Bo could do with a team like UConn though man they were good/

I think this is a great post.

One reason we don't successfully deter presses is because we refrain from aggressively attacking them and trying to score easy baskets. If Wisconsin just holds up after they beat the initial wave there's no cost to opponent. Every time they force a turnover it's basically free. Most teams would have the philosophy that they are going to take what the defense gives them but Bo Ryan stubbornly refuses to play many other styles but a methodical one.

I also think another reason we struggle against them is because players are so scared to turn the ball over because Bo will yank them if they make that mistake. That causes tentativeness in dribbling pass the first wave, passing to partially guarded players, etc.; which in turns leads to ten second calls, five second calls, and a high turnover rate in some games to avoid the 5 second calls.

Shear quickness disadvantage is another area we can't ignore. We don't have anyone on the level of Walker, James, McNeal, or Dyson in that area.

Some people will call Wilson challenging Thabeet fearlessness and I'd call it recklessness. He's far too overeager and has to begin to take what the defense allows at some point. Dude is averaging an abysmal .88 points per shot (not even counting 2 free throws as a shot) and he received very fortunate calls from the referee in this game.

[TroyD92]

Originally Posted by Jcwisco

Maybe you guys have already had this conversation already but do you guys see a difference in the guys Bo is trying to recruit now. It seems like he has been going after longer more athletic guys latley as opposed to shooters. Wilson, Taylor and Taylor, as well as Blue? I am really lookimg forward to see what happens going forward.

yea I agree I think its the reputation of the program increasing as well as the loaded instate talent lately....

2011 could look like

PG.Jordan Taylor(very quick)
SG.Diamond Taylor(long and athletic)
SF.Rob Wilson(you know about him)
PF.Mike Bruesewitz(by all acounts a great athlete)
C.Jared Berggen(big and seemed to have some athletic ability)

6.Vander Blue(6'4 combo guard with amazing atleticism)
7.Ian Markolf(Very big and seemed to have decent quickness)
8.Ryan Evans(great athlete)
9.Evan Anderson(big...?)

Im missing people I know but you get the point.

2011 class seems like were going for the same types with players like Randle, Enegwu(sp?) Will Sulivan, Sam Thompson...etc

[Bernini]

Statsheet.com is a great site for college basketball stats that everyone should check out. Here's their Badger page: StatSheet - Badgers

They provide a lot more advanced statistics than your standard site. Here are the Badgers' current leaders in effective field goal percentage, which judges offensive efficiency by factoring in two free throws as a possession as one example.

Jon Leuer 64.2
Trevon Hughes 60.2
Marcus Landry 53.8
Joe Krabbenhoft 45.2
Keaton Nankivil 44.4
Jason Bohannon 41.0
Rob Wilson 31.2
Jordan Taylor 16.6

Confirms the belief Leuer should receive more shots and P.T.

[TroyD92]

not to mention he gives us more size....Bohannon had better step his game up he is the weak link right now.

[TheFresher]

So, I didn't get to see the game.. who looked like our MVP? and did UConn really just beat us or did we just not play very well?

[TroyD92]

Originally Posted by TheFresher

So, I didn't get to see the game.. who looked like our MVP? and did UConn really just beat us or did we just not play very well?

both, Uconn played great press defense and The only one who could handle the ball was Pop, Jbo/TJ liked like garbage....Leur needs more minutes, and Nankinvil will be a good one.

[Bernini]

I watched the contest between Marquette and Texas Southern last night and I can tell our game at the BC later this year is one where I'll get frustrated by Bo's stubbornness to adjust his strategy on a game by game basis.

TSU employed a zone that confused Marquette and forced a low offensive efficiency. Marquette's EFG% was only 46.8 in comparison to their season average which was 54.9. And that was in spite of shooting a much higher 3-point percentage which was characteristic (43.5 v. 28.8) and having one more steal than normal to get out in transition as a result of.

Implementing a zone shouldn't make our regular man-to-man discernibly weaker, but of course we know by now it's just not happening. It would be especially helpful for us because Bohannon can't stop James/McNeal's penetration and if they go 3 guards we'll probably have to match and that will take Jarmusz/Krabbe out of the equation.

Don't get me wrong, I feel like we're very lucky to have Bo Ryan, but I think his inflexibility is what prevents him from going from very good to great coach.

[Jcwisco]

Every year I find myself questioning something that Bo is doing. Wether its rediculous substitution patterns, but mainly its the lack of aggresiveness I continue to see on the floor, not by individual players but as a team. I previosly mentioned why they struggle against the press is because when they break it they lay back instead of make the other team pay, you may see it on rare occasions but not often enough.

To me it seems that Bo has a game plan that he refuses to change, while it is a game plan that can routinley have the Badgers ranked top 5- 15, its never going to bring them a national championship. Yes there may be exceptions but look at the history. Illinios with D.Brown, L.Head, ect. North Carolina elite 8 Duke, U Conn. In every one of those games the Badgers had a chance to win as late as the second half, but the pressure always got them they made turnovers.
Yes sometimes it would probably work well to play zone or even put a little back court pressure. On offense it would be nice to see them get the ball to guards in the post and let them create either for themselves or slash players to the basket if the double comes. The offense spends to much time passing around the perimater. It seams like no one is capable of making a post entry pass at times, that really bugs me but like you said Bern we are lucky to have Bo. His players always get better from year to year and we have had back to back 30 win seasons. Really thats something special. From all accounts he's not a douche like that other coach.

[Bernini]

Originally Posted by Jcwisco

Every year I find myself questioning something that Bo is doing. Wether its rediculous substitution patterns, but mainly its the lack of aggresiveness I continue to see on the floor, not by individual players but as a team. I previosly mentioned why they struggle against the press is because when they break it they lay back instead of make the other team pay, you may see it on rare occasions but not often enough.

To me it seems that Bo has a game plan that he refuses to change, while it is a game plan that can routinley have the Badgers ranked top 5- 15, its never going to bring them a national championship. Yes there may be exceptions but look at the history. Illinios with D.Brown, L.Head, ect. North Carolina elite 8 Duke, U Conn. In every one of those games the Badgers had a chance to win as late as the second half, but the pressure always got them they made turnovers.
Yes sometimes it would probably work well to play zone or even put a little back court pressure. On offense it would be nice to see them get the ball to guards in the post and let them create either for themselves or slash players to the basket if the double comes. The offense spends to much time passing around the perimater. It seams like no one is capable of making a post entry pass at times, that really bugs me but like you said Bern we are lucky to have Bo. His players always get better from year to year and we have had back to back 30 win seasons. Really thats something special. From all accounts he's not a douche like that other coach.

By substitution patterns are you referring to bench Greg Stiemsma for extended periods after he was a major positive x-factor because of his ability to alter shots and facilitate the offense through ambitious high post passing?

I've seen nowhere that +/- statistics are kept for college basketball, but my guess is Stiemsma was the best Badger in that area of the Bo Ryan era during his career. But his shot blocking was accompanied by a propensity to foul and his non insanely cautious passing led to a turnover here and there; so he sat. Sometimes to make an omlete you have to break some eggs. If he wouldn't have sat so long against UNC or UNLV in the NCAA tourney, maybe we don't lose those games. Bucky goes from down 7 to up 5 in the second half against UNLV w/ Stiemsma on the court, he proceeds to sit the last 8 minutes plus, and the Rebels are +11 the rest of the game. Against UNC, Sean May was virtually unstoppable by our bigs. He had scored 16 points w/ 3 minutes left in the first half and Bucky is down by 11 when Stiemsma enters the game. Stiemsma proceeds to completely shut May down, and we finally get some traction, go on a run, and amazingly completely erase the deficit before halftime. So logically Stiemsma doesn't play the entire 2nd half.

The under-utilzation is possibly the most frustrating aspect of the Bo Ryan era for me. Or maybe it was refusing to play zone against Arizona in the '06 tournament when it was the great neutralizer against them all season. It nullified their athletes and made them look incompetent like against teams such as Hou-friggin-ston.

I totally agree on the perimeter passing aspect. Why wouldn't you desire your players be a scoring threat for as much of the shot clock as possible? That doesn't mean you have to shoot the ball early in the clock per say, but if a shot is presented at some point, that would be a positive thing. No reason to impose a rushed shot on yourself - that's not efficient offense. Stiemsma was always the zone breaker in our self imposed zone offense.

[Jcwisco]

Steimsma may have had some turn overs feeding the post but was by far the better than anyone else at it. I think I remember hearing somewhere that Bo requires his guy to use the bounce pass to go to the post{ maybe on the badgers season thing on espn during D Harris's junior season]. Steimsma was a good passer cause he could see over everyone. Im sure he never had as many turnovers as they had the other night against the press.
The thing about substitution patterns goes along with letting teams dictate who he would play. He would bench the big's against small teams for defensive purposes, when that would have been a great time to play zone instead of man to man. That would have given them huge mismatches down low on the offensive end. Like I said his philosiphy works most of the time just not when he needs it against teams with quick guards and athletic front lines, which each year includes about 5 teams.

[Bernini]

Originally Posted by Jcwisco

Steimsma may have had some turn overs feeding the post but was by far the better than anyone else at it. I think I remember hearing somewhere that Bo requires his guy to use the bounce pass to go to the post{ maybe on the badgers season thing on espn during D Harris's junior season]. Steimsma was a good passer cause he could see over everyone. Im sure he never had as many turnovers as they had the other night against the press.
The thing about substitution patterns goes along with letting teams dictate who he would play. He would bench the big's against small teams for defensive purposes, when that would have been a great time to play zone instead of man to man. That would have given them huge mismatches down low on the offensive end. Like I said his philosiphy works most of the time just not when he needs it against teams with quick guards and athletic front lines, which each year includes about 5 teams.

It all kind of goes under the umbrella of having certain philosophies and being ultra rigid about them.

1. Bounce passes into the post are tougher to intercept, so that should be the rule with no exceptions. Well, they're tougher to intercept, unless they're coming from a taller player. Then it's going to take a while before the ball hits the ground. For taller players, the better angles exist by making an overhead pass. Anyways, a turnover near the basket is tantamount to a missed shot, because you'll have 3 or 4 defenders back, so it's far from the worst thing in the world.

2. Defense wins games so the primary match-up concern is how they're going to fare defensively. Nevermind if you can create a bigger problem defensively for the opponent with a certain lineup. I'm not a big fan of one-sided philosophies like "defense wins championships". No, teams win games because they scored more points on their possessions than the opponent, and that can be achieved through preventing the other team's offensive efficiency while ensuring yours. Seldom has a team had an elite accomplishment by doing only one or the other well.

3. Don't jump pass. Well, a lot of great point guards have been extremely effective by getting in the air and forcing bigs to come up and challenge them, and then dishing to the open man that has been created. It's not so much jumping to pass but rather jumping to have a shot-pass option. Shot fakes only work if the defender is near your height or smaller and they have to commit early. If you're particurly small a smart, bigger shot blocker isn't going to completely release from their man until as late as possible, thus taking away all passing options. Getting in the air is one of the only weapons smaller players have. If I had a choice, I wouldn't play for a coach who yanked me every time I attempted a jump pass.

[Bernini]

UWM is my alma mater as of recently but I felt no sympathy about them being hammered by Bucky. Ryan appeared to show some sympathy toward his former mentee however. The game wasn't nearly as close as the score indicated.

I think you could draw a lot of parallels between Rob Jeter and Bret Bielema.

I wasn't able to catch much of the game, but during what I did catch it was Jon Leuer FTW yet again. I want to see him playing 28 minutes or so per game during the Big Ten season. Hughes always seems to beat up these hapless mid majors but I want to see it carry over against some real competition for a change. He doesn't have a quickness or size edge against most high major points.