Other NCAA Talk

[marley26]

BIG TEN CHAMPS!!! As happy I am I just dont know why Bo plays Tim Jarmusz. I know he's only a frosh but I just dont know what he's good at.

[komacki]

Bo plays him because:
1. He's the third guy off off the bench after Bohannon and Stiemsma. Leuer hasn't played well in a month or so.
2. Using a seven man rotation won't get you very far in March and April. Playing three (BT tournament) or two games (NCAA) in three days will wear a team down if players are in for too many minutes. Freshness is key.
3. He'll play a lot next year, so playing more this year can't hurt.
4. He plays solid defense (from what I've seen so far live, I haven't been able to record any games and actually watch him) and has a killer three point shot.
5. I haven't seen him make a mistake yet, which is a big thing for Bo.

[Bernini]

I agree that a 7-man rotation will wear out players in both tournaments. We need to extend that rotation to at least 8 (and utilize Stiemsma more). However, if we do so, Leuer has proven more worthy of the role than Leuer. He showed the most poise of any player when everybody else was nervous at Duke. His 25 point performance at Michigan was something Jarmusz can only dream of as a freshman, or maybe any point in his career. You said Jarmusz hasn't made a mistake yet. He was nothing but a walking mistake at Northwestern. He continually picked up his dribble beyond the halfcourt stripe and couldn't work himself out of the trap, resulting in numerous turnovers. From the field you can tell he's extremely nervous, short-arming everything when shooting is supposed to be his strong-suit. Defensively he tries, but was burned repeatedly by McCamey of Illinois. He's an alright defender against wings, but doesn't have the lateral quickness to guard backcourt players.

Our guard rotation should be fine with 3 men: Flowers, Hughes, and Bohannon. Hughes and Bohannon are very young still. Flowers is a well conditioned athlete. One comes out, the other comes in. All have point guard skills and allow us to pressure the perimeter so opponents can't breakdown our defense off the dribble or see inside. Wing rotation is Krabbenhoft and Landry. When Krabbenhoft gets the call to the bench, Landry can slide from the 4 to the 3, with a twin towers look of Butch and Stiemsma in the frontcourt, or occasionally Leuer at the 4. We're covered with 8 players and we don't need Jarmusz. I'll gladly take my chances with Leuer over Jarmusz. Leuer looks to have the inside track for starting center next season, so his minutes are more important for now and the near future.

Maybe this conversation should be split into a general Badger talk thread.

[komacki]

I'd like to thank the BTN (and my cable getting turned off) for making me look like an idiot. Apparently he hasn't been playing as well as I believed.

"Our guard rotation should be fine with 3 men: Flowers, Hughes, and Bohannon." - It's nice not to see Krabbs at the 2.

"When Krabbenhoft gets the call to the bench, Landry can slide from the 4 to the 3, with a twin towers look of Butch and Stiemsma in the frontcourt, or occasionally Leuer at the 4." - Bo has shown a tendency to go with all three guards before he puts Butch and Stiemsma in at the same time. Also, (this being dependent on his punishment) Gullikson could see some time at the four, especially if Bo needs someone to guard (and be a punching bag for) a physical post and hopefully draw a couple fouls (did you see how many elbows he took against Texas that didn't get called?).

"Leuer looks to have the inside track for starting center next season" - Thank god I'm not the only person who sees that.

Bo has done quite a job this season, especially because he's doing it with only 11 scholarships. Granted, not being able to play Gavinski is mostly Bo's fault because Bo recruited him, but there's nothing Bo can do about the one Mo Cain has. Just think what another upperclassmen guard would do for the team.

[TroyD92]

Could of gave it to Jerry Smith

[BoKnowsBall]

Originally Posted by TroyD92

Could of gave it to Jerry Smith

We didnt have an open scholarship for him. We had two left and three people- JBo, Pop, and Smith. JBo committed first. Then Jerry Smith was a huge badger lean but when Robbie Jeter went to UWM we lost the person who was Smith's main recruiter. He no longer had a very close relationship with anyone on the staff and decided to commit to Louisville. Hughes then took the last scholarship about two months later and I am happy with the way things ended up.

[Bernini]

There's a common conception among Badger fans that Leuer projects to the small forward position more than he does center. I think that's a mistaken conclusion on their parts. Just because you're skinny at 17-18 years old, can dribble, and aren't a stiff; doesn't mean you're a small forward. 6'10"+ plus players are rarely going to be able to match lateral quickness with perimeter opponents. Durant was the exception, not the rule. I recall when message boarders called me crazy during the 2001 draft, for asserting that Tyson Chandler would more likely end up at center than small forward in the NBA, because he's over 7 feet tall. Taller ballers can't match lateral quickness, naturally fill out as they get older, and thus move down a position or two. Leuer especially projects to fill out. He looks about 215 already when he was listed at 195 during his recruitments. He sports a baby face and corresponding baby fat on his body, which will add weight alone when he converts it into denser muscle. Against Duke early in the season, Leuer stepped up to be our best player at battling in the paint. He exhibited impressive post moves, pump fakes, and adequate strength; the few times when he was given the opportunity during the season. He has the look in his eyes of a special player and he'll succeed wherever he's utilized. It just so happens he'll be most needed at center next season because he's the frontcourt player the closest to being ready for prime time. In 2009 he could slide back down to the 4 position with Landry graduating. Look for him to be a mini Butch in the swing next year though.

I'm fine with the 3 guard lineup as long as it's not used for extended periods, forcing us to rest 2 at the same time. We need 2 of that group in the ballgame perpetually. Not doing so might prompt more minutes for Jarmusz. I also don't want to see Gullickson. He's not an NCAA tournament caliber player, especially being so rusty.

The Perry transfer was out of Bo's control. However, he didn't have to grant a scholarship to Gullickson. Bo often walks the line between having enough scholarships to field a deep enough team and showing loyalty to hard working walk-ons, refusing to burn redshirts, banking scholarships for long term, etc. We fell on the wrong side of that line in 2005-2006, starting with 10 true scholarship players, but ending up with 7 after academic issues and a transfer. We were never the same afterward and went from Big Ten frontrunners to losers against North Dakota State, an around .500 record in conference, and an early exist from the NCAA's.

I've heard conflicting reports about the Jerry Smith recruiting situation. He announced he was holding a press conference to make a declaration, which was reportedly that he wanted to commit to Wisconsin, according to papers, but he subsequently canceled his presser. I've heard Jeter's departure played a signficant role. I'd be more inclined to believe Bohannon's commitment had more bearing because he made the 360 a couple hours following the news about Jason. Smith and Bohannon play the same position. Either way, from our perspective, we weren't taking three small guards in the same cycle. The first two of Smith, Bohannon, and Hughes; who were willing to commit, would have been accepted. It was Bohannon or Smith; Hughes or Smith. Gavinski only could have been substituted for another frontcourt player. The best frontcourt college player, so far, rising up from that class, was either Adam Koch or Andy Polka. Both have been solid mid major players but I don't know if they'd even be rotation players with Bucky. I'd rather lament Kyle "Dream" Weaver or even Michael Nelson instead of DeAaron Williams. Or how about a million talented players from Milwaukee Public Schools weren't an option because they failed to qualify.

[Heavystarch]

Originally Posted by Bernini

There's a common conception among Badger fans that Leuer projects to the small forward position more than he does center. I think that's a mistaken conclusion on their parts. Just because you're skinny at 17-18 years old, can dribble, and aren't a stiff; doesn't mean you're a small forward. 6'10"+ plus players are rarely going to be able to match lateral quickness with perimeter opponents. Durant was the exception, not the rule.

I think the conception that he projects as a three was because he played a wing in high school, not because he isn't a stiff. On offense he will play more of a wing (3/4) style, because that is his strength, but on defense he will most likely end up playing the 4/5 due to his size. Bo has never been one to force a player to change their style on offense, and I don't see him starting that now.

[Bernini]

Originally Posted by Heavystarch

I think the conception that he projects as a three was because he played a wing in high school, not because he isn't a stiff. On offense he will play more of a wing (3/4) style, because that is his strength, but on defense he will most likely end up playing the 4/5 due to his size. Bo has never been one to force a player to change their style on offense, and I don't see him starting that now.

It's all the factors I named, in addition to him being able to shoot. Just like Yi. Just like Nowitzki. Of course their teams have come to find out them guarding 3's is just not plausible, so they're 4's and up. And yes, the NBA game is comparable. If anything it would be easier to guard and penetrate on 3's in the NBA because many are in the 6'8 to 6'9 range, long legged, and thus slower a foot. In college many teams play 3 guards or a true wing who is more like 6'4" and quicker. In the swing offense, if you're guarded by the opponents biggest player, you're a 5. Every player is expected to play both inside and out. It's hard to define players as interior or perimeter players. The only definition sprouts from inability to be versatile.

Another topic to discuss.......I think Wisconsin should consider resting all their key players in the Big Ten Tournament. We have little incentive to win the tournament when we've already won a Big 11 trophy in the regular season. Also, the NCAA tournament committee already came out and made the declaration, I believe, that no games beyond the quarterfinals of the BTT tourney will factor into their seeding decisions. I know it's at least beyond semis because that game occurs too late on Selection Sunday.

Why risk a crushing blow like the injury to Butch last year when we have little to gain from winning? Any injury to a rotation player would be crushing because we are ultra thin in the first place. Plus, it would be a nice slap in the face to Delaney, who put short team financial goals ahead of fairness to players and fans. Top teams in the Big Ten can only be punished for early exits in seeding, but not rewarded for winning it all.

[komacki]

"Another topic to discuss.......I think Wisconsin should consider resting all their key players in the Big Ten Tournament." - Bernini

Hasn't Bo traditionally undervalued (that may not be the best word) the BTT? I think that with a 2 seed within reach that the Badgers should go out and win their first two games. That would get them into the final, which the committee doesn't consider. If that happens then I wouldn't mind Bo playing it catious and using his subs more freely in the final. That is unless Purdue reaches the final as well, in which case you avoid the season sweep.

Also to consider is that the 1 seed has been subject to upsets (especially the Badgers the last two times) during their first game.

[Bernini]

Originally Posted by komacki

"Another topic to discuss.......I think Wisconsin should consider resting all their key players in the Big Ten Tournament." - Bernini

Hasn't Bo traditionally undervalued (that may not be the best word) the BTT? I think that with a 2 seed within reach that the Badgers should go out and win their first two games. That would get them into the final, which the committee doesn't consider. If that happens then I wouldn't mind Bo playing it catious and using his subs more freely in the final. That is unless Purdue reaches the final as well, in which case you avoid the season sweep.

Also to consider is that the 1 seed has been subject to upsets (especially the Badgers the last two times) during their first game.

If we rest all our players, then we have the built in excuse if we get upset in the opener like in year's past I don't think our past Big Ten winners were nearly as dominant as this team. We shared the title with a 9-5 record in '01-02.

I'd rather enter the BTT with the goal of protecting players and stick to that goal. We might still be able to beat Iowa with Gullickson, W'Quinton, Bronson, Cain, Gavinski starting. I mean Iowa doesn't have much more talent in among their starters. If we make it to the finals by playing our best, we'd be compelled to continue that strategy because we made it that far.

I don't know if Bo under-values the BTT. He seems to put a lot of emphasis on achievements within conference in general relative to postseason accomplishments. At least that's my personal perception. I'd like to see the goal this year to win the NCAA championship. Even though a little far-fetched, if they fall short....they can be proud of their effort....knowing they didn't cheat themselves. I remember in 02-03, Crean made it the goal of the Eagles to make the Final Four. Once they made it, they were subsequently destroyed by Kansas. Their kids were too satisfied the weekend before.

[Heavystarch]

I'm not one to believe in superstitions or anything, but last year 7/8 Elite Eight teams won their conference tourny. I think momentum counts for something, so why not go out and win? There is the one percent chance of injury, but "playing not to get hurt" is usually when injuries do happen. I do agree that the tournement is scheduled stupidly, hopefully we get Minny in the final so it will have to count

[Bernini]

Originally Posted by Heavystarch

I'm not one to believe in superstitions or anything, but last year 7/8 Elite Eight teams won their conference tourny. I think momentum counts for something, so why not go out and win? There is the one percent chance of injury, but "playing not to get hurt" is usually when injuries do happen. I do agree that the tournement is scheduled stupidly, hopefully we get Minny in the final so it will have to count

A 1 percent chance of injury was an obvious over-exaggeration at the time, Heavy. I mean these kids aren't bionic.

Unfortunately, my worst fear came true when Trevon was clutching his ankle. As I said before, it would have been the most prudent decision to not risk these possible disasters. That game was exciting and our kids once again had "onions", as Bill Raftery said. We will probably win the Big Ten Tournament now and play spoiler to one team in the Big Ten at least (Illinois/the Goofs or OSU). But at what cost? Why was winning this tournament worth any risk? We already won a Big Ten Title over a season that's 6 times longer. We can't immensely improve our seed.

Now, I'm open to the theory we'll actually be better without Hughes. He imposed his will negatively on the team again and was the primary reason we lost 2 of our 4 games this season. Our biggest win by far came without Hughes in the lineup. But we can't seriously consider using a 6 man rotation the rest of the season. So what do we do? Replace Hughes with the wholly unprepared Jarmusz? Go even bigger with Leuer and slide both Landry and Krabbenhoft down a position often times? We have some tough decisions to make.