Penn State vs. Michigan

[MattC87]

There wasn't a game thread or anything, so I figured I'd start a post-game thread to express my congratulations to you guys. Some thoughts...

- Evan Royster is really, really good.
- When given time to throw, Daryll Clark is the best QB in the Big 10.
- Tate Forcier is still just a freshman, which makes games like this happen.
- Denard Robinson- 4 interceptions in 21 pass attempts. Ugh...
- On the flip side of DR, Navorro Bowman did a great job of baiting him into throwing that pick.
- A change from previous UM/PSU games. PSU finally realized that Michigan's LBs and safeties can't cover and attacked them repeatedly. Whether it was Andrew Quarless absolutely roasting Obi Ezeh (who is the worst three-year starter I've ever seen), Graham Zug just toying with Stevie Brown or the general awfulness of Michigan's covering abilities, PSU finally had a good gameplan for it.
- Bowman for Big 10 DPOY.
- Holding on to the football is a great skill to have. Cherish it since your players appear able to do it.

Cheers, and good luck the rest of the way.

[joeyc32lp]

Thanks Matt. Brandon Graham is a beast... and I was pretty pumped to see Sukay starting to make some good reads and delivering some good hits. He's been scaring me a lot this season... hopefully he's really turning the corner.

[PSU42Fan]

Matt - you are gracious in defeat...much more than some of your brethren.

Good luck the rest of the way.

[HailToTheLion]

Brandon Minor is one of the greatest combos of strength and speed in college football right now.

[PSU42Fan]

Originally Posted by HailToTheLion

Brandon Minor is one of the greatest combos of strength and speed in college football right now.

Problem is, like a lot of big backs, they wear down too fast and don't play hurt.

The only way UM would've had a chance yesterday was if Minor got 25-30 carries. Tater isn't ready to carry a team with one hand tied behind his back.

BTW, the excuses were flowing yesterday. Maybe Tater needs to spend some time in the Arctic to get his body adjusted...

[psubills62]

Thanks Matt, appreciate the thoughts.

Some of my own:

-Zug scored twice on that same play (Moye clears out the underneath, Zug heads to the corner); they might want to work on covering that one better.
-Brandon Graham is really good.
-Robinson is a really good runner, and Michigan's run game was good the entire day.
-your QB's will get better, which is pretty scary. They're already good enough to beat mediocre to bad defenses.

[AustinScottistheone]

Good post Matt, thanks for the congrats.

Couple thoughts:

-Bowman is getting in a groove, see him taking proper angles and getting to the ball 10-15 yards down field if an opposing rusher/receivers breaks loose...imagine he'll be spying Pryor a few weeks from now and I can't want to see him get a few kill shot opportunities

-Beachum should get carries and some screens going forward, whether at RB or FB. Looks promising as a hybrid type, hope he plays quite a bit against tOSU because he was very sound getting between rusher(s) and Clark on pass plays

-I imagine Clark is well aware of coverages and such, but at times, especially when he has good protection, he'll stare the play down while it develops...still successful but I'd like to see him take his eyes elsewhere.

-Devon Still looks to be comically huge...to think these first seven games as a RS SO have been his only meaningful game reps as a PSU player (after consecutive season ending injuries - TR FR, RS FR) is scary....going to be VERY good if he maintains his health.

-Really like both of PSU's starting OGs, both should be All-Big Ten (1st/2nd - coaches) at least one season at PSU - 2 (LG Troutman)/1 (RG Eliades) more years of eligibility, respectively. Troutman is one of my favorites on this team...I have very high hopes for him (think he could be PSU's most promising OLineman for the league) and could see '10 PSU verbal commit (NY OL/DL) DaQuan Jones being a clone.


---------

I have no clue what Michigan is doing....Michigan needs to recruit OLine/DLine and LBs/S in a hurry.

PSU took SEVEN OLineman this past class and have 4 in this class...we lost 4 OLineman after last year and will lose 3 after this year...+11, - 7.

PSU has 6 DLine commits and will only lose DE/LB Jerome Hayes/DT Jared Odrick after this season. With the philosophy, tradition, expectations, coaching, stability, players, and recruiting PSU has had and will have, Michigan is going to need to amp it up big time on the defensive side of the ball.

This PSU D is going to take big hits with the losses of Odrick, Lee, Hull, and probably Bowman but with the SO DLineman (Crawford, Latimore, Stills), Mauti (RS SO next season - recovering from ACL), Lynn, Morris, and Sukay, things look perhaps even more promising then ever.

Even when PSU was a poor program for a stretch of years, the D showed up and kept an inept (talent lacking) offense in just about every game. What I am trying to say in this long mumbling disgrace of a post is that I can't identify Michigan's identity under RR...maybe it is yet to be formed, I think this is the case. If you are going to be an offensive team, you better be an offensive team and score 35 regardless of circumstances while cashing in opportunities and not handing them out. You can't turn the ball over multiple times against quality opponents AND not play D.

[MattC87]

Originally Posted by PSU42Fan

Problem is, like a lot of big backs, they wear down too fast and don't play hurt.

He's been hurt all season. Been playing with a sprained ankle. Not that it changes much, but Brandon's played hurt and done so well.

The only way UM would've had a chance yesterday was if Minor got 25-30 carries. Tater isn't ready to carry a team with one hand tied behind his back.

Indeed. The ND game gave us a false glimmer of hope in this respect.

BTW, the excuses were flowing yesterday. Maybe Tater needs to spend some time in the Arctic to get his body adjusted...

*shrugs* Maybe.

Originally Posted by psubills62

Thanks Matt, appreciate the thoughts.

Some of my own:

-Zug scored twice on that same play (Moye clears out the underneath, Zug heads to the corner); they might want to work on covering that one better.

Don't ask us to make adjustments. That'd be ridiculous. Iowa only got to Clark by bringing pressure. We shouldn't do that. Yeah, rush four and watch him carve up the defense sounds good.

-Brandon Graham is really good.

We wasted his career. He really is outstanding. He reminds me of former Michigan great LaMarr Woodley, only perhaps more explosive. Plays the run and pass equally well.

-Robinson is a really good runner, and Michigan's run game was good the entire day.

He turns the ball over way too much, though. 2.8 ypc isn't good, either. I guess that's what happens when a team dares you to beat them deep and you don't even attempt to throw it deep, though.

Originally Posted by AustinScottistheone

I have no clue what Michigan is doing....Michigan needs to recruit OLine/DLine and LBs/S in a hurry.

RR, to his credit, has tried to recruit those positions. On the one hand, there's a lot of youth at those positions, so it's a little hard to stockpile talent there. He still has four OL from the '08 class, one DT (Mike Martin), three linebackers and two corners. In the '09 class, he got two DE/OLB, one DT, three LB (counting Mike Jones here), two corners (counting Adrian Witty who will enroll in January and Justin Turner who could be a FS) and two safeties. I feel like the effort's there on D, but we need to start landing some studs.

PSU has 6 DLine commits and will only lose DE/LB Jerome Hayes/DT Jared Odrick after this season. With the philosophy, tradition, expectations, coaching, stability, players, and recruiting PSU has had and will have, Michigan is going to need to amp it up big time on the defensive side of the ball.

This PSU D is going to take big hits with the losses of Odrick, Lee, Hull, and probably Bowman but with the SO DLineman (Crawford, Latimore, Stills), Mauti (RS SO next season - recovering from ACL), Lynn, Morris, and Sukay, things look perhaps even more promising then ever.

Even when PSU was a poor program for a stretch of years, the D showed up and kept an inept (talent lacking) offense in just about every game. What I am trying to say in this long mumbling disgrace of a post is that I can't identify Michigan's identity under RR...maybe it is yet to be formed, I think this is the case.

Yeah. UM's probably never going to recruit the D side of the ball as well as PSU again. Like I alluded to earlier as well, there's also been a logjam of pure numbers at some positions, so it's just waiting on these kids to grow up.

If you are going to be an offensive team, you better be an offensive team and score 35 regardless of circumstances while cashing in opportunities and not handing them out. You can't turn the ball over multiple times against quality opponents AND not play D.

A combined 9 turnovers against Iowa and PSU.

-your QB's will get better, which is pretty scary. They're already good enough to beat mediocre to bad defenses.

Hard to temper expectations down sometimes. We tend to forget they're just freshmen. Hope you're right.

Long post, heh.

[MattC87]

The thing about UM's defense is that it, for better or worse, returns 9 starters next year. Obviously, losing Graham will be awful, as we have no one who's remotely close to him in terms of ability. We might also lose CB Donovan Warren, but maybe the PSU game was good to bring him down a notch. Assuming Warren returns, UM will return 22 of 24 defensive players in the two-deep. There might be some switching of positions, depending on how well certain players progress, but returning that many players can't be bad.

Can't it?

* We also lose our All-American punter Zoltan Mesko, which really sucks for the field position game.

[FrankBooth]

Originally Posted by MattC87

Assuming Warren returns, UM will return 22 of 24 defensive players in the two-deep.

And maybe for a change, they'll even return the DC. Letting the guys play in the same system for 2 years straight could help too.

[MattC87]

Originally Posted by FrankBooth

And maybe for a change, they'll even return the DC. Letting the guys play in the same system for 2 years straight could help too.

That would certainly be nice.

[Undercover Brother]

Originally Posted by MattC87

There wasn't a game thread or anything, so I figured I'd start a post-game thread to express my congratulations to you guys. Some thoughts...

- Evan Royster is really, really good.
- When given time to throw, Daryll Clark is the best QB in the Big 10.
- Tate Forcier is still just a freshman, which makes games like this happen.
- Denard Robinson- 4 interceptions in 21 pass attempts. Ugh...
- On the flip side of DR, Navorro Bowman did a great job of baiting him into throwing that pick.
- A change from previous UM/PSU games. PSU finally realized that Michigan's LBs and safeties can't cover and attacked them repeatedly. Whether it was Andrew Quarless absolutely roasting Obi Ezeh (who is the worst three-year starter I've ever seen), Graham Zug just toying with Stevie Brown or the general awfulness of Michigan's covering abilities, PSU finally had a good gameplan for it.
- Bowman for Big 10 DPOY.
- Holding on to the football is a great skill to have. Cherish it since your players appear able to do it.

Cheers, and good luck the rest of the way.

A Wolverine gracious in defeat? You aren't the norm by any stretch. Glad you are giving credit instead of acting like Tom Beavers or the rest that said only two of your players showed up and the rest quit.

Brandon Grahm - what can I say. I'm glad we don't have to face him again. I remember the kid wanted to visit PSU and I believe Carr told him if he did, his offer would have been pulled. God, I would have loved him at PSU.

Minor is a pain in the rear to play against.

Forcier - should be fine. We shall see. The didn't like playing in cold weather should concern people. Personally, I think he is at SDSU or SJSU in two years once Gardner arrives and pushes him.

The thing I don't understand is how bad defensively Michigan is. On the surface, it appears RichRod is taking a page out of the Weiss play book and only recruiting offensive players and not focusing on bringing in players to improve the defense. ND won't have a good defense as long as Weis is there. As for Michigan, your class seems very unbalanced. JMO

[MattC87]

Originally Posted by Undercover Brother

A Wolverine gracious in defeat? You aren't the norm by any stretch. Glad you are giving credit instead of acting like Tom Beavers or the rest that said only two of your players showed up and the rest quit.

Thank you. You guys certainly handed us our butts. It was much worse than I expected.

Brandon Grahm - what can I say. I'm glad we don't have to face him again. I remember the kid wanted to visit PSU and I believe Carr told him if he did, his offer would have been pulled. God, I would have loved him at PSU.

Brandon's turned into quite the all-around DE, but him at PSU just wouldn't have been fair with all of those linemen you guys have surrounding him. Imagine him if he weren't getting doubled and at times tripled on plays? Yeesh.

Minor is a pain in the rear to play against.

He seems to enjoy playing PSU, statistically speaking. It's a shame he was never healthy during his time at UM.

Forcier - should be fine. We shall see. The didn't like playing in cold weather should concern people. Personally, I think he is at SDSU or SJSU in two years once Gardner arrives and pushes him.

*Shrugs* I don't know. It's a bit concerning. I mean, you'd think he knew what he was signing up for. He certainly had offers from sunny weather schools. I think Gardner will be a tank, and a nightmare for other teams in this offense. I'd LOVE to see him redshirt next season, but if he's as improved as everyone claims he is, there's no way it happens. I'd like to see Denard Robinson moved to CB or WR. He's just a raw freshman playing QB, but his upside in a Percy Harvin-like role is ridiculous.

The thing I don't understand is how bad defensively Michigan is. On the surface, it appears RichRod is taking a page out of the Weiss play book and only recruiting offensive players and not focusing on bringing in players to improve the defense. ND won't have a good defense as long as Weis is there. As for Michigan, your class seems very unbalanced. JMO

Not to pull a page out of the ND excuse book here, but Lloyd Carr did RR no favors defensively. Yes, there are some nice pieces (Graham, Warren, Stevie Brown as a LB when he's not in man coverage against slot WRs), but a glance at the amount of RR players that have played extensively makes me a bit quizzical as to what Carr was doing. All of RR's recruits are either freshmen, redshirt freshmen or sophomores, so I guess we'll have to wait and see how they develop. As you know, the bulk of college players don't make an impact that early. We'll have to see how they do in their junior years onward to really grasp how well he's recruiting defensively. As for the unbalanced recruiting...

'08 class saw 16 offensive players, one long snapper, and eight defensive players. This was a joint Carr/RR effort. 4 offensive players and 2 defensive players are already gone.

'09 was RR's first full class at UM. It saw 11 players on offense (one of them, Teric Jones, was moved to CB when he got to campus), 10 players on defense and a kicker.

'10 has 11 offensive players, seven defensive players and a punter, with the remaining ~5 scholarships being used for defense. It's also being rumored that one or two of the 819 receivers that are coming in are ticketed for defense. All in all, I'd rather see more pure defensive recruits, but the balance is pretty solid.

[joeyc32lp]

No doubt Robinson needs a position change. Not good at QB = bad. Extremely athletic and could be a stud at another position = good.

[MattC87]

Originally Posted by joeyc32lp

No doubt Robinson needs a position change. Not good at QB = bad. Extremely athletic and could be a stud at another position = good.

He needs to play QB this year because if we didn't have him, we'd have SheriDEATH. Hopefully, Gardner can come in and wreck some fools.